The other day, Hubby and I were asked for the nth time when are we starting a family.
I am not going to get into the particulars of that issue in this post for the simple reason that the answer to that question concerns no one else except Hubby and me.
But it did get me thinking on one thing. Why do people STILL continue to ask us that question when clearly they know they're not going to get an answer from us?
A while back a colleague of mine told me that she learned the hard way never to ask that question again. She was having dinner at some friends' and, while watching her daughter play in the living room, she suddenly turned to her friends and asked them when were they planning of having a baby of their own. And that's when they told her they'd been trying for years and had finally learned the week before that they were sterile.
My colleague, who is about my age and has a lovely little 2 year old minx of a daughter, told me she never again wanted to see eyes so sad as the eyes of her friends when they told her the news. She told me she learned her lesson and realized no one should ask such an invasive, private and personal question to a childless couple.
I don't completely agree about it being a taboo question and one that shouldn't, under absolutely no circumstances be asked.... but I do agree that fundamentally, it is a private issue and that if someone makes it clear that it's not a subject they want to talk about, this should be respected.
In my opinion, it should be the couple themselves that start telling friends and loved ones when they want to start a family, not the other way around. And that means, at least to me it does but maybe I'm just a freak, that when a couple hasn't started advertising this particular wish, clearly it's because they consider the issue isn't up for public consensus yet, right?
So how is it that some people can't seem to understand this? How is it that some people automatically assume that getting married implies baby in 9 months-time (announcement or no announcement of actually wanting one), and that a full blown inquiry must be made when such is not the case.
And what makes these people think they are even entitled to the answers to that inquiry?!
You know who I'm talking about... it's either a nosy colleague, or a bossy friend, a curious third degree cousin, the lady at the bread store, the dude that cuts your hair, the friend of a friend, the mother of a friend of a friend.... people that are close to you but not close enough.
I know that most of the people that ask us this are doing so because they see a happy, healthy, economically stable couple that is in love and who will probably do everything in their power to provide a happy home for a child, so I know their question has no ulterior motives and comes straight from their heart. And that is why I always try to answer straight from mine by mixing in as much grace and gentleness and patience in my diplomatic "it's none of your business" reply as I can muster.
Still, it does gets under my skin when the concept of "it's none of your business" doesn't get through, which is sometimes the case (a lot of those nth times we've been asked come from the same people, asking over and over again). A friend told me she and her hubby resolved the issue when they started answering with a "it's no longer in our hands" reply accessorized with big, teary eyes and a sadder than sad face. She claims that doing that definitely got the message "you're entering dangerous waters buddy, so you better drop it" through; and when a few years later they finally did decide to get pregnant, people were not only overjoyed for them... they were relieved.
But I don't think it's fair a couple should even have to resort to such drastic, misleading and somewhat questionable, measures.
I just find it incredible that people can be shy or discreet about asking you how much money you earn and yet not be in the least bit bothered about prying in you and your partner's choice of when to make a life changing decision.
Anyone else knows of a creative and polite way for saying "bud out"?
Fned.
19 comments:
Hello! I constantly read you blog I just never comment.
It is great to read this specially now, my hubby and I have been married for 3 yrs and we have 2 children from a previous relationship of mine. People are constantly asking me and him, when we are going to have "our" children, a child that is "his and mine" or when am I going to have "his" kid. Thing is my husband, doesn't want to have any more children, he considers the ones we have as "his", as "his and mine", as "our" children. He knows that I didn't want to have any more children since before we got into a relationship, when we got engaged after 3 years of dating, I made sure that his feeling towards having children hadn't changed and he said no, he didn't want to have any more children than the ones "we" already have. This, somehow, drives friends and specially family members insane, and of course it is my fault, "I don't want to have kids with him", we get asked this question constantly, by the same people, and it pisses me off. I have tried explaining that we are happy with the ones we have, that my husband has tried to have kids in a previous marriage and although he wasn't diagnosed as sterile (because he didn't get tested), his ex-wife had kids already, so it was more likely that he couldn't have kids. He says he feels fine with the kids we have now, he loves them, takes care of them as his own, and supports them in many ways, he does every single thing a father does and it offends him that people don't think he is a real father. So to answer your question, I don't believe there is a polite way that works, people feel entitled for some reason to ask these questions, my answer to this is always, No, we are happy with the kids we have. I would just say: "We are happy with our life right now and have not yet decided when (or if) we are having kids"
Since marrying Philippe I've been getting this too and while the question itself doesn't bother me, the regularity can be a bit tiresome. It puts a kind of pressure on you, makes you conscious of going against the flow. Almost like your lack of kids is a deficiency you have to explain.
But, annoying as it is, the question is bound to come up, so best to have an answer prepared. Something along the lines of "We don't know yet," "We're thinking about it," "We'll see," etc. Even if it's not true. Just to put them off the topic. Hinting that there's a possibility that you may have kids is more apt to satisfy these people since that seems to be the answer they're fishing for. You can use that one till you're 45 and then you just say, "Dang, I really wanted to. Oh well, too late!"
I was really struck by the whole "marriage=babies" mentality in France. After I got married (and suffered through all the jokes about the 10 pages for kids in the livret de famille) I asked around if anyone knew a French couple who chose to not have kids (not sterile), and are more than 40/50 years old. I don't think my belle famille could think of anyone they knew that was married and didn't have children by choice. I saw a documentary on ARTE about women from Camaroon/Burkina Faso meet French men online and then marry them to move to France. The French government is of course really worried about fake marriages and makes the couples jump through a lot of hoops in order to live together in France. Some expert explained "La code civile a prévu le mariage pour fonder une famille, pas pour immigrer." Makes you feel real great being in "mixed" marriage, right!
For the how to respond, I know there are often discussions on the Indie Bride forums, and women gave suggestions like responding "And how is your sex life?" There's always the classic "Well, we keep practicing, but we haven't got it down yet."
Just like parents completely forget what it was like when they got married when they hear that their child is getting married, I think parents and grandparents would love to hear they're becoming grandparents or great grandparents. They take it is a proxy for a measurement of happiness in the couple. Happy= make babies. They want simple answers, and to be reassured that their child/grandkid/friend/neighbor is happy, instead of dealing with the complexity of life.
I usually just respond with a light-hearted, "We're having babies in 35 years and if you ask me again before that time period is up I'll punch you in the face."
Kidding...kind of.
Also the thing about close...but not close enough. Honestly, for me it's not about closeness but more the insinuation or lack of behind the question.
Some people ask, "When are you going to start a family," as if implying that you and hubby on your own are not ALREADY a family, or as if they're wondering when you're going to start fulfilling your societal duty. Some people seem to have a hidden meaning behind the words, implying that you're a bad person since you are of child-bearing age yet haven't decided to give your womb up yet. Those people, I really do want to punch.
And other people ask out of simple curiosity or interest in your life. I don't mind that so much.
I've gotten the question a few times, and we're not even married yet! I think here in Chile the high rate of unplanned teen and early 20s pregnancies makes some people think that if you're actually in a stable relationship by your mid-20s then you must want kids. Of course the actual fact is that I take great care NOT to have kids and plan to continuing doing so for several more years!
The one time I remember someone pushing me to explain more beyond "oh, we just don't want kids yet" I blurted out "umm, because I am 22!" in a voice that made it clear that I thought anyone who chose to have kids at that age was insane. I did later feel a little bad that the person asking the question was also 22 and had a 4 year old son, but she's the one who chose to keep asking personal questions despite it being the first time we'd met!
To me it seems obvious that there are a lot of reasons a couple like you guys might choose not to have children (yet or ever) as well as reasons that you might not be able to. While I don't think it's necessarily rude for someone to ask the question when you've been married for several years, pursuing it definitely is.
As someone who's already been through the child-rearing years, I find myself on the other side of the fence so to speak. However, I think asking someone "when" they're going to have a baby is pretty unfair. When I feel curious about someone in your situation, and if I know them enough to feel comfortable asking them, my question is simply: do you ever think about having a baby? That way, they can say naah, we haven't gotten there yet, and that's where I realize I need to move on to another subject. Or they can say, well, we think about it, but it's not actually on the agenda for now, and again, I'll butt out.
After reading this entry, I only hope my way of asking hasn't been too offensive for those I've asked!!!
I'm appalled when I read these accounts by young straight couples. Of course, when you are gay they don't ask that but there are other similar questions they do ask.
Anyway, I agree that it is beyond rude and I can't fathom what they think gives them the right to ask something so personal. I also agree that there is something really wrong when it is taboo to ask how much money you make but ok to ask about your procreative plans. Good grief!
How has it escaped the notice of so many people that we as humans are about to procreate ourselves out of a planet? I have this huge urge whenever I see someone with more than 2 kids to say something to them, something really rude. So far I've kept my mouth shut but it is often hard.
I'd be tempted to say something really off the wall to these questioners. Maybe turn it around and ask them if they don't think it is too personal a question and how they came to feel they could ask that. Make them come up with an answer. Really quiz them on it instead of answering their question. If you make them uncomfortable enough they might not do it again.
Hear hear to everything you said. My parents were married eight years before I came along and I totally respect them for that - they lived a couple life before a family took over and before dedicating everything to their children for a span of around 28 years until we were through University. I wouldn't have change anything about our family for the world. My parents, I point out, are also still happily married after many years x
Anon: I'd find it incredibly offensive if people tagged my kids as "mine", "his" and "ours".. things like this make my blood boil. I would probably not make much of an effort to answer politely if people asked us when were we having "our own" kids. A parent to a child is not only the gene provider.. it's all that love, effort, sacrifice and support that you provide that kid with... and it seems to me your Hubby is more a dad to your children than a lot of "father figures" out there. What's important is that you and your Hubby are on board together, you decided when and how you want your family to be, you are the parents to your kids and they see you as mom and dad. Any additional prying or opinion-making from third parties is superfluous. Thanks so much for commenting! :D
Jonnifer: "Almost like your lack of kids is a deficiency you have to explain".. that's EXACTLY how it feels!! (depends on who's asking of course!). Sometimes I just want to lash out a "we don't want any...ever" just to see what the reaction would be... LOL
L: I had to laugh at the Livret de Famille thing... it's true what you say about "marraige=bébé" in France even though you wouldn't think so. I was really amazed when slowly all our couple-friends started tying the knot and becoming parents soon afterward. Hubby and I were one of the first to get married in our group and now we're one of the last ones left without kids yet! Some of our friends accept that about us and some just nod their heads and shrug; I can practically read their thoughts: "well, what can you expect? Fned and Hubby were already weird when they met, who knows what goes on with their Mexico/American/French/Romanian mixed up head of theirs!"... LOL
Mamacita: It's true that we tend to associate the word "Family" with a Mom+Dad+Kids image.. I do that myself. Yet, I agree with ya.. I feel Hubby IS my family and since, currently it's only him and me, well.. I guess that IS my family and any implication otherwise would piss me off. What's funny is that it was so much easier when Hubby and I were newlyweds and I was "only" 25...somehow that kept the asking to a bearable minimum... now that I'm closing in on 30, lately the inquiring has gone up a notch. :s
Emily: I can't believe people ask you guys if you want to have a baby at 22!!! I mean, I know Chile, like Mexico, is a very traditional family-oriented society, but even then.. it just seems way too young! (said by the matronly almost-30-year-old!) I have to admit though, to be honest, the age doesn't matter to me that much. I mean, some people prefer to have kids when they're young because they want to be "young, hip parents to their kids"... other prefer to wait because they want to feel "mature and responsible" enough... either way, it doesn't bother me. What gets my blood boiling is third parties giving their opinion on when IS the right time.
Minshap: That's why people love you mom. Because you GET it. It's exactly what you say: I think asking couples WHEN is what puts the pressure. They're not asking them IF they want kids, they're asking them WHEN they're going to finally get around to having them.. as if the couple has no other choice. I don't think you've ever offended anyone with your question, myself included. :)
Jonna: I've had moments of frustration and anger too, especially when people that aren't even close to us simply wont drop the subject. I've lashed out a couple of times but usually I remember that sometimes it's a culture/religion thing; some people grew up being taught that marriage was all about expanding the community/True Religion and aren't open minded enough to see it as anything else. In these cases, my frustration instantly disappears and all I can think is "thank God I'm not trapped in THAT head!"...
Anon: Thank you so much for your comment. It really made my day and I hope Hubby and I get to one day look back and realize we made the right decisions on how and when we wanted to create our own family, just like your parents did!! Congrats to them!! :D
Fned.
After 2 years in Spain, my neighbours were asking that question. One person even asked my good friend if I was really married...
she said, oh yes I've seen the wedding photos..
for some reason that cracked me up then and still does now.
I don't know why people were interested. But it turned me off and I became very private to the point when I never talked about my pregnancy until it was obvious....and since I didn't show until my 6th or 7th month because I'm small and it was winter....it came as quite a surprise.
I'm sure some people thought I adopted...
People are nosy. Ignore them as best you can. :-)
Hi, there; just wanted to say how much I like your blog.
I couldn't agree with your post more.
My favorite answer:
"I'll forgive you for asking, if you forgive me for not answering."
Resident Expat: ooohhh the nosy neighbor, we all have one (mine is still back home in Puebla!)... Usually, THAT type of inquiring backfires on them as far as I'm concerned. The more they ask, the less I tell them... I can't believe you didn't show until you were 7 months! So (pre)jealous! :D
Soozles: Thank you so much for your kind words! And just so you know, I am DEFINITELY using your line next time! That's such a great reply!! Thanks!
Fned.
I tell them that we are way to lazy to take care of a baby. I can see disapproval in her/his eyes, and then I laugh. Damn people! Mind your own F business.
Ay gente chismosa!!!
and it never ends... as soon as you have your first baby, they start asking about the second one (para cuando el otro?) agh! well, none of their business!!!
if you want to be sarcastic without sounding really REALLY rude... just tell them: I don't know yet, but I'll make sure to let you know :P heh
So when are you?
There are two responses to this sort of question, one practical and long winded, the other short and much more fun. I'll go with the short one for now.
People who ask such questions haven't thought the it through, so getting them to be considerate is going to be difficult. I suggest a response that illustrates the boundary they have crossed:
"Actually my husband and I enjoy oral sex too much to revert the old fashioned style..
"We're having some trouble, what position do you recommend.. missionary, doggie style?"
Fight TMI with TMI, and most will call the retreat.
I despise getting asked this question.
Before I despised it cause I thought it was none of their business.
Then I despised it because I wanted to have children, really I did, but didn´t think we were economically stable to be able to do it and really didn´t want to listen to the long drawn out horse-shit speech about how a child doesn´t care how big their house is and blah blah blah.
Now I hate it because we are trying and...I don´t know...we just can´t. And, yes, I wanted to have a big family, like, yesterday and we still don´t and I don´t want to get into the particulars with family that are demanding we give them explanations as to when. It´s humiliating and they don´t deserve my discomfort over the subject. And I don´t think I can emotionally handle their pity. At all.
Thanks for this post, I´m glad I´m not the only one who feels pestered by this.
Batzk: Some people I know whould get a heart attack if I gave them that answer!! LOL ;D
Ale: *getting dizzy just at the thought of a SECOND!!!*
Anon: I'll forgive you for asking, if you forgive me for not answering.
Abbie G: tee-hee, oh I can't wait to use this one! Definetly with my hairdresser!!! Thanks! :D
Blues: Thanks for your comment girl. I wish people could finally GET how intrusive this question can be for a couple for just about all of the reasons you give in your post! I sometimes want to scream "don't you get it? THE MORE YOU ASK, THE LESS YOU'LL GET so just back off!"!
Fned.
I just say: we don't want bugs in our house. We saw yours and decided that lowlife is not for us.
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